Owlo chat - Rich and Neethi - 100620


Rich 0:11

Okay, Hi Neethi, we agreed that we're going to go through our experience of crashes and talk a little bit about them. Can you can you set the scene a little bit please?

Neethi 0:30

Okay. Yeah. So what I would want to be talking about is my experience of the crash that I went through, and how similar that is to different experiences that you've had in terms of dealing with a situation. The whole process of what happened during it and how I went through it and how I was being mindful about it, how is it different this time? and leading to what? What was the outcome? Like? How do I manage it going forward? And how is it different from any other time? And you know, what does it narrow down to? And what are the steps? What is the structure behind that I have worked on what have I identified and what are the patterns that I've identified during this experience and how it can help somebody else who's going through a similar experience to maybe have a different perspective and try this perspective to see if that can be resourceful for them.

Rich 1:55

Great. Great. So would you would you like to start by describing what you feel you've learned from this time round?

Neethi 2:11

So, I think maybe, if I could go back to journaling I would want to put in a little more content into it. Where I call the whole situation a maze brain situation.

Rich 2:42

Maze brain? Like a physical maze?

Neethi 2:49

Yes a physical maze. So in my head there's a maze and it's green in colour and I'm in a maze brain, my brain is like a maze and this journal, this journaling was during the, so the crash happens for me, it takes three or four like it's almost a week experience where I know I'm beating myself up and I'm not able to keep up to my routine and am overwhelmed and that turns into anxiety and then that leads to a point where it just escalates and escalates and then that eventually leads to a complete crash and that complete Crash Course is a process of one whole day of not able to function at all. So, this maze brain situation is what I termed it when I started writing about it. And for me, it was something like this where I look, I spoke it was, it was like I was talking to another person, like I mean, I do a lot of move along with myself. So it was talking to myself. In saying that we physically exist on our own, and each of us have our own reality our own worlds we live in. So that's how I looked at it. Cause every time I was, I was spoken to or I would go to this experience i thought i was i was going crazy or you know, something's not right. But when in NLP, we say there's no right or wrong, everybody has their own, you know, own map of the world and everybody looks at the world in a different way. So, in my head, it's everybody has their own world. Everybody has their own, like multiple universes. And and we create our own world in a way we also want to destroy it at the same time. And I'm not talking about physical world, like it's anything that we see and experience and yeah, so The whole the whole experience boiled down to just me being there and, you know, existing in multiple when when I cross paths with other people, they, you know, I'm like

"Okay, is this person looking at me in this way, what is happening?"

and stuff like that? So, yeah, to sum it up this is how I've written.. I'd maybe want to read out something that I've written Is that okay?

Rich 5:29

Yeah, yeah sounds great.

Neethi 5:34

Okay, so I'll read this out...

"I have this way of existing in this world Some days are trying. Not tiring, not because I did a lot of work. But because my brain runs around like a headless chicken waiting to just fall dead at some point. Some days are so much more productive and calm. Each time I have an emotional breakdown it takes me days or even weeks to come back to my senses. It's like my brain just goes into hibernation mode automatically. I could stay in that state but the world around me is moving too quick and I'm finding it difficult to catch up some days. Some days the world is too slow, and I'm in some supersonic mode. And these normal days where I'm able to catch up exactly to the pace the world is travelling on, and those days feel so good. Those are my favourite days. I know I'm unique and I'm okay with that. It's just that when my pendulum swings to the other extreme, staying afloat becomes challenging. It's like balancing on a board. The challenge is to stay focused all the time. I'm too sensitive. Not always I can have a chat with myself and help me understand which end of board I am on. That also takes a day or two."

Rich 7:03

Great. So you're a time traveller?

Neethi 7:06

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you could say that. So, at that point I was, it just didn't sound very, like, not normal, but I had to write it down and I wanted to experience that.

Rich 7:27

When you say not normal? I'd challenge that. I think that is pretty normal, you know, to fail out of phase with life sometimes and feel like sometimes it's going too fast. And sometimes it's going too slow. Maybe it's more acute, maybe it's more, you know, in the moment for you or more extreme.

Neethi 7:56

Yeah, and when I say supersonic mode, I've used that word because it does feel like supersonic. Like it's just the world is just so fast, and I'm not able to catch up and then I go out of, it feels like I'm going out of breath and I can't. So eventually, the, the crash happens after that. And this is I think day three or day four and day five is when the crash happened for me. And it was more physical experience like like I mentioned to you yesterday, it was more of a physical experience where I understood that it's okay to feel this way. It's alright and what triggers It is me overwhelming myself. Of late I have been more positive towards my perspective and approach towards any kind of situation or any kind of challenge that comes my way. I look at it and say it's okay. What's like, like I said yesterday, "what's the worst that can happen?" And I don't know how I overwhelm myself while doing it. But I did overwhelm myself and that led to this and I think giving myself that space and saying that it's okay

Neethi, step back, take a step back, just take a breath and work on it. I think that's that's something that I have realised out of this because when I was going through the crash, it felt like I mentioned it felt like my pupils were dilated. I was lying down in a quiet room and a dim room and but I could see the whole thing like, you know, through time, it was not in time, but it was through time I could live through it and I could see the when it started and what it was going towards and how it ends. So that whole experience was crazy, very crazy, because I don't know how to explain it in words and after I have come towards the end of it, and I know what I've recognised that these are the things and it's okay to feel this way. And it's all right. And, you know, tell myself that

"Cut yourself some slack and that's going to be fine. It's very normal to feel this way you don't have to, you know, function, exactly how the world functions and state all the time that the world is functioning and your world can evolve the, you know, and take the odd bit and take the rotation time that you want to take it, it's fine and you can catch up at some point when, you know, you're not beating yourself up completely."

So, and the next day I feel I feel good when I like, you know, I, I would, I would just completely relax after that, that whole process and then I would go to sleep and wake up next day feeling better. Yeah, and I would feel so good that you know, it's like, wow, it's a new day. Like, sometimes it's scary. Like when I think about it, it's kind of scary, like how can I how can I access such Great shift of state, you know, just a day before, I couldn't function the whole day. And the next day I'm like, up and charged up. And I do have spills over like spill overs from the whole crash, but it's more like, like I mentioned, I would take a step back, sit down, take a breath, or move, my new things that I would do to, you know, break pattern and then I would step forward, to take up the next. whatever I'm doing.

Rich 11:39

Is it the same pattern every time? And do you think that it's an important process for you to go through? Or, you know, or is it something that you think you want to stop from happening?

Neethi 12:00

So it's it was worse when it started, it was much more difficult and not in my control. It was horrible. Definitely, I don't want to go through this process, I want to reach a point where I don't have you know, imagine being not able to function properly for a week or three four days it's difficult at this pace of life where there are deadlines and you have work to do and commitments and stuff like that. It's, it can take it actually adds up to the stress level. So the process of understanding is great, but I wouldn't want to go to such an extent because it's physically draining. It's exhausting physically. And yeah, I mean it takes a lot to I'm okay with just one, going through that process, but not like, you know, a week of it, it's gotten better from my past experiences. It has been similar the experiences they have been. Those experiences have been similar, yet, you know, different. My awareness is different. I was, each time the process happens, the awareness is actually a lot more than what it was. And the process is getting lighter as it's happening now. So, back then I couldn't like I think even the last previous time that I had a crash back in November, I couldn't move I couldn't even write or think of, jotting things down. This time I had a sense of presence of mind where I could separate. I think that's what we spoke about last time. Also about separating my self into two people that have two personalities that I've created. Because I need to, you know, I'm going through this process of feeling low and this process that I need to be there of working and being, you know, present and doing things. So I switch between the two personalities and yeah, so now that has helped me to, you know, step away from that experience and also experience it while it's happening. So it's a very different experience this time. This time, it's been more magnified and actually more awake, I feel during the experience, otherwise I would be a lot more like foggy, dazed, very bloody, not sure and after the crash, I don't feel so great or I wouldn't feel like I've accomplished something. Or I have found something out of it or I have experienced what's the outcome? What's the conclusion? So this time I have a conclusion. So I can snap, snapping out of it is something that you know, helps. This is something that I like, I don't know if I can. This is something that comes in my head. Caesar Milan is known to be the dog whisperer. So in his thing, he talks about how a dog gets into a frenzy of doing like, Oh, I'm so hyper, hyper hyper. And one thing he does is just like, tap or, Chi chi. He does that. So that breaks the pattern, it completely breaks the pattern and the dog's attention moves away and it's just a state of mind. And that's exactly how I feel like like when I when I step back, and you know what I do, to break pattern, it really helps it just does exactly. I mean, that's the best example I could think of. So that's exactly how I feel.

Rich 16:07

But that sounds a lot like your approach, your technique where you do little stretching exercises on your, on your bed. Is that similar? Is that breaking the pattern slightly?

Neethi 16:23

Yes, it does. Yes. So, if I am feeling like I think it, whatever state of mind that we are in, it manifests physically as well. So, sometimes for some people, it's like, tightness of body. You know, shoulder pain, there is some point where you'd have some kind of physical manifestation of it. So sitting down and I've realised that just sitting down doing a forward bend or just, you know, lying down and shivasana and just doing a body scan, any of that helps, helps a great deal because it's just bringing awareness breathing into that point. I think that's where Yoga has helped me a lot. Because in yoga, we talk about when whatever posture you are in, use, if you feel if you feel pain at that part of your body, you breathe into that part of the body. And it's like you're, you're mentally, you know, sending oxygen, no, you're breathing to that place, and you're creating a visual map of your body in your mind and you're breathing into it and, and the release does happen. So I think that adds value to my experience. And because of that knowledge, it adds value to my experience and it adds value to how I feel, you know, how I change things, even even if it's not, it doesn't have to be sitting on my bed, even if I'm moving about and I have you know, doing things And suddenly I have this weird feeling and it's it's normal to have right so anxiety can just pop up for no reason. If I have like a heart rate just going up fluctuating It feels like a drum, drum's playing in my chest pumping and I would just sit down or take a breath or I would just do a forward bend I would just roll forward and just dangle like a rag doll. Breathe into my chest, I would do a lot of Yeah. And something that I experimented this morning is Heart Chakra meditation, which felt really nice because I think for people who have anxiety and people who have which triggers certain state and it could lead to crashes like mine or or anything that because anxiety can lead to a lot of different things, a lot of different issues. just holding hands on your heart and sitting down and meditating and imagining the heart Chakra is green in colour and I'm just imagining a green colour and being in nature and have a visual image of it, and brighten it. Doing a heart chakra meditation is amazing.

Rich 19:15

Great. So there's something, there's a couple of things that you mentioned that I wanted to pick up on but a theme seems to be around pacing and that perhaps the self soothing you're doing when you're doing the stretching is also, and the heart chakra, is also about pacing, re-setting your your pace and your rhythm somehow can, reconnecting with that.

The other thing that that I've noticed is the theme of overwhelming yourself, you say overwhelming myself and that seems to sound like there's a sense of accountability, that it's that you are overwhelming yourself. Does it feel like you're doing that? Do you have the awareness that you are overwhelming yourself? And is it the lack of control or what control do you have at that point where you, if you, realise that you are overwhelming yourself?

Neethi 20:45

It's definitely lack of control to begin with. And then self awareness happens and when the awareness happens is when I act upon it. So it's a very unconscious thing. I think it's It has to do with my behaviour or reaction. You know, it's just me who moves around quickly and does things quickly and wants things quickly and wants results quickly. I think that's something and for me pacing down is something very important. So it happens very uncontrollably and without my knowledge and suddenly there is there is an understanding because again, with thanks to yoga and breathing and pranyama and all that I've been practising and understanding how breath can work on my state of mind ... it's like an anchor that I have when I realise that I'm shallow breathing and quick breathing. That means my state has changed. And it's like a sudden, you know, burst of eye opening like:

"Oh Neethi, Ok wait, something's wrong. Just hold on"

And then I'm like,

"Okay, you are overthinking this is what you're doing"


"You're, you're running too fast. Can you slow down?"

So that's what I do. I mean, that's how I have the conversations so I'm like:

"Ok, wait, wait, wait, wait."

Rich 22:15

And what do you do at that point?

Neethi 22:19

At that point, I just sit down wherever, whatever I'm doing. I put that on hold if no matter how important how, you know, tight deadline or anything, whatever it is, I just put that aside. And I just sit down I don't do anything I just sit down and maybe close my eyes or lie down or.. there's something that's my favourite posture that I do is sit in butterfly and my head touching my toes like I do a forward bend. That helps me think and I think it helps also helps my heart rate to regulate it makes helps me breathe, basically. So that I do, I sit on my bed and I just do like my head forward and roll into a ball basically. And I said, therefore, I rock back and forth and then I'm okay. You're okay, fine. sip some water. Go back to it. Like I have an internal dialogue saying "Ok, what happened, why's this happening, cool down, it's fine. What are you doing? Why are you doing this? Can you just calm down, can you be salve, can you chill out?" And then I'm like, Ok! Yeah.

Rich 23:34

So you're essentially resetting, you know, pacing yourself slowing yourself down. Pacing down, as you say. So, what happened this time? Why, why didn't those techniques prevent this crash from happening?

Neethi 24:01

Mmm I think it was, yeah, this time it was my fault because you did warn me not to ponder upon certain things and you said Neethi, it it's not, do you think you want to really sit on that pain? And I remember, I clearly remember you warning me not to do that. And me being curious, I don't know thanks to NLP your tied to self learning and self experimenting or whatever you want to call it. Curiosity has built in me about you know, "How / Why do I do this, how can I do it differently? Why am I doing this? Why am I feeling this way?" There's always a question that I have towards my reaction and "How can I be different? How am I reacting like this?" So I pondered upon a being that you know, like I mentioned I was going through this pain and I didn't know why I was going through and why it was still painful and you know, going through a breakup or a divorce, so you know how it gets. So I think that kind of, and I think what I did was, I don't think I think I know, I, you know, went ahead with it. I literally did a bungee jump and said, Okay, let me jump into it and my rope snapped. So,

Rich 25:20

That's a good metaphor and quite a frightening one. You know, it's everyone's worst fear, isn't it doing a bungee jump and the rope snapping..

Neethi 25:33

Yeah, so I bungee jumped and my rope snapped and there it was.

Rich 25:35

Wow. That's, that's graphic.

Neethi 25:45

I think that's the closest way I can express what I experienced so.

Rich 25:49

And we mentioned yesterday about diet and what could have, what situational factors As well as, obviously life pressure stresses external factors but we talked yesterday about diet and, and sugar and you sounded like you had a bit of a realisation there.

Neethi 26:16

Yes, I did. So because food and mindful eating is something that I've been practising for a while. I mean, how food affects our state of mind and all that. While I think a brain can only do so much I can focus only on one thing at that point I was already focusing on how wide is the experience Why am I feeling this way completely lost track of what I was eating and after you meant this to me yesterday, I was actually thinking about it. And unconsciously I picked food that would comfort me in terms of a lot of greasy food. Like I would pick up chips I would say I would want to have sweets, like you know, chocolates, a lot of caffeine I started having I usually have just one cup of coffee and I'll end up having two and more.

And I think that also adds on to it because I know when I'm eating more clean and I'm eating more fresh food and you know more Satvic kind of a routine and my mind is, is actually calm and I don't crave, cravings don't come that easily when I'm on a very mindful eating situation. But that whole week I didn't realise I was just eating whatever was you know, not good. And I did crave for it I would, even though because I don't eat junk, I don't eat food that is not right. It doesn't, you know, support the state of mind that I want to be in. I don't buy food like that. So I actually went to the grocery store and picked up the stuff like my hands just went there and I just picked up those food. I came back home and you know, binged on it. And I didn't even realise I was doing that.

So I think being mindful and checking, like, you know, that's what I've done so I made a checklist. I know it's too intense and why would somebody, oh my god, it's so much effort, but I think it helps me. I made a checklist and I've put it up on my bedside wall, you know, "food, check", you know, "Stretch, check". So I have that the (?DC?) food check, stretch, check and music check. So music helps me so these are the things that I want to keep. These are the things that help me stay aligned to the state of mind that I want to be most of the time, like all the time, so at least they support with it. So even if I'm unconsciously going towards something because it's right there in front of me. I remember it. So I've been doing this every time I get off my bed. I know this bowl of water and sip water that I mean, that's how my water drinking habit that I created. But this is something nice, which is new and it's actually nice. It's helped me like every time I would say eat, I've put a fruit and made a small crayon picture of a fruit and have put it up on my wall. So it's like a visual anchor of eating. Eat means not just eating anything, but eating right and healthy, fruit's a visual anchor of it. Helps. It helps.

Rich 29:45

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's fascinating, right when we, when we reflect on what we've done, we often see that there's more, more in what we've done that we probably just didn't realise at the time, we, you know, broken some of our habits because once you get into that overwhelmed state, for some reason, we, we start to stop thinking about all the things that have maintained our positive state, like our diet, like our, you know, like not doing too much and, and that can contribute to exacerbating the overwhelm state just making it worse than it already was. It reminds me a little bit of what happens when, I get into, historically I'd like to, I'd like to think what I've got into an argument state where it feels like I'm not myself, like someone's taken over slightly. But it's not so much that someone's taken over, it's more that parts of me have been switched off that the compassionate side of me is more switched off the, the one that takes care of myself gets switched off.

And, you know, I like you say there's the other indicators like, your heart beating too fast or your breathing rate having changed or you not being in a state where you're self monitoring in, I often find that there's a little voice inside of my head saying, you know, this isn't a good idea. "Why are you still doing this?" and for some obscure reason, you know, historically there was a part of me that just went I don't care. I don't care about you. Little Voice, I don't care about the fact that this is unhealthy. I don't care about the fact that my heart's beating too fast. The thing that's right in front of me is the most important and I need to deal with it. It's a it's a sort of fight response. So I'm, you know, I'm, you know, I'm there and I'm ready to fight whatever this thing is. And it's, it's a it's a, it's a mismatch. It's, it's, I'm bringing, I'm bringing fight to a situation when I should be bringing love. Yeah. And not necessarily love to other people. Yes, but, but mostly to myself, you know, I'm abandoning my own needs, I'm abandoning the things the structure that that's, that's supporting me. And when I abandon myself in that way, I behave in a way that that doesn't reflect the person that I believe I am. And yeah. getting, wrapping a layer of mindfulness and not layer as a bubble of mindfulness around ourselves. That creates that buffer between our actions and has a feedback loop in there. You know, that's, this is all part of the way that we, operate in the world in a way that, serves us serves us well and, and reflects, gives it gives us the ability to be our best selves. But it takes practice, practice comes.

Neethi 33:45

Yeah I think that's where the self-love practice comes.

Rich 34:02

Yeah, I was gonna ask you more about self love then but I think you've kind of covered it a little bit with your you know your process of, you know, your butterfly pose and curling into a ball and your music and your food. That's self love, isn't it? Is there anything else that you do?

Neethi 34:24

Yeah, there's another thing that I do is so when I'm when I know it's out of my control and I have really gone through a lot of pain or it's just not in my control anymore. All I do is I lie down and like when I'm lying down, I am more in like merely lying in a foetal position. And I just literally hug myself and I talk to myself and I, I do like, either I'm crying or I'm just so low that I tell myself,

"You're you Okay, I'm there for you Neethi, you're gonna be fine. It's all right." And "It's completely okay". And you know,

"You're, amazing and you are going to get out of it and it's just going to pass. Just hang in there and you'll be okay. Just hang in there just for some more more time. Morning you'll wake up in the morning go to sleep, wake up in the morning and you will feel really amazing and I'm there for you just really get through this together."

So this chat always helps me you know, a chat where I'm telling myself that

"it's alright it's okay you've done a mistake or you've gone through it something that you did fine you did it for you know, a better understanding on certain things. You had a very you have, you've always had a positive intention towards it. And it was it was nothing to do and I know you're going through this and you're going to be okay, we're going to come through this"

And it feels amazing because I think to the longest time I've been externally dependent on for that kind of assurance and that kind of comfort. And now, I've been practising that a lot more consciously for like, you know, a couple of months now. That feels nice, It's like I'm there for myself and I don't need any other external support to comfort me and make me feel good.

Rich 36:34

And you mentioned before about, you know, these two different parts of yourself is this is this an example of that where you've got, you know, a, you've got this other version of yourself that can soothe you that maybe the, you know, the more idealistic version of yourself or a different version of yourself that's soothing the part of you that's suffering, can you talk a bit more about that?

Neethi 37:14

Yeah, so this is the vision in my head, there are two people, there's Neethi A and there's Neethi B. Combine them together? They make the complete Neethi. So there's a calm version of Neethi and the crazy version of Neethi. So the crazy version of Neethi does all the damage and the calm version's there to pick up the pieces. And you know, it's like the Ying and Yang so, yeah, she helps the other one and supports the other one and I think it's my it's a projection of like, how we all look out for somebody externally as a partner to be in. And that's something that's lacked in my life. And I've always like I said, I've always been dependent, I do rely on somebody else to help me and be the other bit of it to to calm me down, or when I'm hyper, calming down, or when I'm calm to, you know, back me up and make me feel good. And after the last time, I'm going to quote you, you know, you need to be your knight in shining armour by yourself and you need to rescue yourself, you can't rely... that kind of triggered off you know, this version of the two versions of me and I think if it completes me that that experience completes me so the Neethi, the calm Neethi and the crazy Neethi make Neethi, so I have both of the resources in me to be utilised wherever I am either of it.

Rich 38:44

So when you're, when you find that you've got these, you know, separate parts of yourself that kind of more extreme, one that does the damage and other one that's soothing then you've created a relationship. between these two parts of yourself, that actually works. That brings you back to being Neethi again.

Neethi 39:08

Yeah, Yeah, it does. It does. Like I said, it's an external manifestation of mental characters that I've created. Yeah it's healthy for me, it works for me. So.

Rich 39:32

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I think a lot of people go through that, but probably haven't put it as succinctly or as, eloquently as you have. I've certainly experienced that myself where, you know, I did, the internal dialogue that I've had is essentially been there to bring the more extreme version of me back to centre. And, and I think that's, it's important to have that it's important to have that inner voice that is, you know, that is, you know, mindful and aware and is on our side, and like you say that it's not necessarily an external voice that we're relying on to, to bring us back to centre, whether it's a person or, or thing or structure, you know, a routine that we have. It's, entirely self dependent, you know, and empowering. As a result, we don't need anyone else to centre us.

Neethi 40:55

Exactly, because you're in control of it. I mean, you can't, at least from my experience, I know that I can't always be relying on another person to come and rescue me at that point. There are moments where I want to, I want to feel better and I want somebody to come and say "It's okay, it's fine, you'll be okay. You'll get through this". And I've done that for a longest time and that feels a lot out of control because their reactions and their expression towards what I'm going through would be very different from what I expect to be spoken to or what my realisation because they, how they look at it would be very different. And what I've realised by doing this, I am not only self-equipped to help myself, also my expectation and my relationship with the other person, whoever I am close to, it changes, if that makes that makes so much of a difference. That lightens up my relationship because I am not projecting my pain on them and not expecting them to soothe my pain.

Now what I'm doing is I'm projecting my learning on them. And they feel that they experience something more out of it. And they are benefiting then they're always contributing. And they also could contribute because then I express what my experience was. They would say,

"Yeah, okay, I understand this, like how we've had the conversation, even me relying on you, I do rely on you, I depend on you emotionally in so many ways".

And I think of late, what I have been doing is I have been sharing my experiences than my just my pain, I would share my process through it and how you would have shared, you know, experience something similar, would give me a perspective and also that could help me with dealing with it in a different way and the conversation becomes a lot more productive or helpful or positive and uplifting than it would be of feeling not heard or not listened to, or not fulfilling. I think being there for self makes it a lot more easier being around other people as well.

Rich 43:14

Yeah, that's, that's, that's a really good point. Because when when we have needs, we can often project that, that expectation onto other people of the fact that those needs that we have need to be fulfilled by the other person. And, and when those when that expectation isn't met, we can feel resentful of that other person for not having, you know, dealt with our needs. And you know, that that's, that that's not a constructive way to approach it because that, you know, that's placing a burden on them, they don't fully understand the situation. There's also that kind of give and take reciprocity thing where, if you're constantly taking from someone in that respect, then you kind of feel like, you need to give them something back. And then that can snowball into

"Oh, I don't really want to be a burden and so I don't feel like I owe anyone anything for expressing myself."

Whereas actually, if, if we become aware of what our needs are, and we can develop a way of giving ourself thosethings, then not only are we able to be more accurate about the way that we, we do that, because, you know, we're talking, we're talking to ourselves, in a sense, we're asking ourselves, "What do you need?" and, and, and obviously, you know, we can be completely honest with ourselves at that point and say,

"Well, I need to I just need to get away from this. I just need to go and breathe I need to roll into a ball and cry, and I need space and time"

And we can give that to ourselves without that sense of burdening anyone without that sense of expectations not being met and potentially resentment growing in a relationship. We can we can say to someone

"Look, I need some time to self soothe I need to give myself some love right now. I will come out of this and I will be able to communicate with you what's happened and to share what I've been through in a way that allows you to be part of it. But not to feel like you need to be my white knight or you need to fix something for me."

I'm internalising that rescuer, that supportive side myself and giving myself what I need so that I can be there with you in a more constructive way, to an extent, and with ourselves - be with ourselves in a more constructive way.

Neethi 46:25

I think all of us do it in a very subconscious level. And most of us are so scared and so afraid to do this internal dialogue because at least from the place like at least from my part of the world where people think talking to yourself as crazy or loony and you know, you have to communicate a voice out or you don't have to talk about it. It's very, that takes a toll on everybody else and then I think it effects relationships as well. So So, just being there for yourself, understanding your needs, understanding what you need, taking a step back, taking, working on your pace and then re resetting everything, understanding how things work for you and you know how things like

"Okay, I know this is how I am and how things work for me"

makes it easier for the other person and for me to coexist with other people as well. And that makes me more productive. It makes me more you know, successful or happy or whatever state that I have to be in.

Rich 47:39

So self Love is the answer.

Neethi 47:43

Self love is the answer. Self Love is the answer for everything all that we do right? working (it) out. If we do it. .. A lot of people do it for other people. They started with external but everything leads to internal physical going to gym or doing a martial art, or doing yoga, or eating healthy eating, right? following any routine, anything, anything at all that we all have all the resources that are around. This is all about self love. Writing a journal again is a monologue that you do with yourself. It's another way of talking to yourself, because what I do is literally talking and also do journalling, I think it helps look when I'm talking I talk to me. All of that is self love. It's just that we need to identify that these are all tools to help us, you know, be part of one person that we are and be content and also co-exist.

Rich 48:46

And, the other part about pace, how do you or how are you going to pace in a way that's more beneficial to you.?

Neethi 49:05

So pace is something that I have been constantly struggling with. Because like I said before, I usually take up the... my concept of big lobster when I started implementing big lobster and when I turned into to a big lobster was

"Yeah.. Gobble gobble gobble gobble gobble"

powerful, big powerful and then I realised that the big lobster has its own flaws and big lobster has weaknesses and then the weaknesses come up and all of that and I took up a lot more than I can like I said yes to everything I would say

"Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes."

And it did feel good. That made me feel great that yes, I'm capable of doing a lot more taking over the world. And that because I don't follow through it and I am not living up to what I have said "Yes" to, because mentally somewhere that are, you know, the other side that pops up or these things that pull us back or the things that we are battling we have our own demons to battle with these pull us back. So identifying them and pacing helped me to understand that you have to take a step back before saying yes, you have to take a step back before the words come out of your mouth. You have to take a step back before you commit to anything. You have to take a step back before you visualise what your future is going to be if you're going to look at the rest of the day, take a step back. So pacing helps, is helping me now because I'm able to plan my day more effectively. Than instead of before I would do i do you have a routine I have a you know, everyday routine my morning routine my day routine work routine work out everything has its own routine, like I have a day plan. But what I what is different now is I don't just make a routine at eight o'clock, nine o'clock and this and 10 o'clock or this this that. So I, I have removed that, this time to this time I have removed the limitation of start and end to it. I'm allowing it to be more fluid and without boundaries. So, I am listening to my body and I'm listening to what my mind says and how I can take how much today so starting the day with a simple meditation or just lying down as soon as I wake up, I do a workflow of like I have my to do list that I prepare a day before and I just run through in my head and I'm like,

"Okay, these are the things that I'm going to do. And I'm going to be flexible with whatever comes my way and I am going to only take what I can chew on right now. So pacing is something that is very important for me. And that is something that I'm very consciously working on. Because if I can be overwhelmed pretty quickly, so yeah. Taking a step back for everything that I do.

Rich 52:28

Good advice.

Neethi 52:31

Yeah, like literally I take a step back in my head. Remember the timeline therapy or that thing that we do where we go take a step and then we turn around, take a walk back. So in my head, I do that and like literally take a step back and say,

"Okay, fine. What are we going to do? You're going to have this conversation? What are you going to do? Is it in your control?" , the whole ecology check... "In your control? Is the outcome positive?"

All that and I think it makes a lot of sense. Because I know the steps that is, you know, there are a lot, there's a lot of process to it. And it's, if when I started this process, I was like,

"Oh my god, who's gonna do all of this every time?"

I think just starting with one and being aware of it eventually leads for it to come naturally. Anything that you do, right? Yeah, you make a conscious effort first, and then eventually it becomes an unconscious effort of just being part of your life. So I did think of it

"Who's going to sit and think about ecology check? or is it positively stated? Or is it in your control or something that oh, my God, so many checklists!"

Now, I think it makes a lot of sense because all of this can make my life a lot more easier. My decisions are more a lot more like I can contemplate and make a decision a lot more simpler.

"It's okay, I can do this... If I did do it, own up to it. Fine. It's Ok Neethi you can do this today, it's alright".

Rich 54:07
"Don't lie to yourself. Just be honest with yourself."

Neethi 54:02

Don't lie to yourself. Exactly, be honest to yourself.

Rich 54:07
So if if you were to boil down, this down to something simple, what advice are you going to give yourself on a simple, in a really super simple level what nugget of information would you say is important to take out?

Neethi 54:38

I think, the only thing that comes in my mind that would sum up everything is take a breath. Just take a breath consciously take a breath deep one, just one deep breath can change everything like at least from my, my experience like

"Huuuuhhh, Huhhhhhh"

Rich 54:50

Sure, can we can we do it?

(We both take a deep breath)

Neethi 55:14

Yeah, I mean that does right? it does make so much of a difference. It's so much of a shift like it's a break literally breaks pattern. Like how we do break pattern and any of the activities that we do moving from one state to another breaking pattern is so important and this helps breaking patterns. And that can reset it. I think it's my reset mantra. Breathe in, breathe out.

Rich 55:40

And so simple.

Neethi 55:42

So simple, and we all do it everyday and we forget to do it, every day

Rich 55:47

I love the idea of us forgetting to breathe. it's strangely counter-intuitive, like, Of course I'm not forgetting to breathe, I'd be dead if I didn't but it's the quality of your breath. And I'd I'd add to that, I think what I, what I do is I breathe until, until I my body and my mind agrees that I'm back to the baseline that I that I want to be at. So there's a process whilst I'm breathing, of checking in with myself and "Relax!", you know being aware of the muscles that are tense in my body and consciously relaxing like you say sort of breathing into those muscles, getting my posture right making sure I'm sitting right in my chair or lying however I'm lying, getting getting the distractions in my body out somehow and then And then letting you know letting the tension in my mind go, you know that I almost see my mind sometimes as a muscle. And I'm trying to, you know, in the same way I'm breathing into my muscles to relax. So breathing into my mind to create the space in my mind that, that I need to come back to being my authentic, you know, the me I want to be my best self again. And then as soon as I've seen as I've that check is, you know, it's a is a tick of, yeah, you're back, you're calm, your heart rates down, your mind is open, your body is relaxed. Then I then that's when I come back into into the world again.

Neethi 57:59

I think and then At this current situation at this given place that we are, we are the whole world is in self love is so important because like physical distancing, not being able to see the people that you see and social distancing and all of that. It's, I mean, if that experience is pretty overwhelming, and it's it boils down to sit, and I think a lot of us haven't had the chance to sit at home and be by ourselves alone, so many of us are alone at home, or with people who we've never thought we would sit alone with, you know, never had the time to have internal dialogues or internal conversations and stuff like that.

So the world is forcefully put to a place where you have to learn to breathe. patterns of breathing. I mean, what an irony right? Coronavirus, with it affecting your lungs and breathing and that's what it affects.

Rich 59:06

Yeah, I, I can't agree with you more. It's it's fascinating that it's punctuated the importance to us of the areas that it affects. And I guess that's, that's like anything, you don't realise how important something is until you until it's gone. And the best way to come out of this COVID situation with with a positive attitude is to see the benefits that it's that it brings in terms of the learning to ourselves, and take that, move forward with those learnings and hopefully make the world a better place if, if everyone is is gathering that Lesson then then you know there's there's something positive coming out of this.